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Hyundai Santa Cruz 2023 — Reported problems

Reported by owners to the source below. It is not a verdict on this car: it is what people wrote. 🇺🇸 Local data

All reports

40
SUSPENSION 2026-09-14 · NHTSA 11764066

Unknown. I have had a clunking in the rear and have come across a TSB TSB 25-SS-003H. Seems like a safety issue. Rear shocks could be defective.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM 2026-09-09 · NHTSA 11763194

The push-to-open fuel filler door repeatedly failed to release, preventing refueling. The door locks through an electronic actuator tied to the central locking system, and there is no interior lever or owner-accessible manual override. Beginning in August 2026, the door intermittently failed to open when pushed with the vehicle off and all doors unlocked. Cycling lock/unlock on the key fob while pressing the door sometimes freed it after several minutes; other times it would not open at all. No warning lamps or messages preceded the failures. A door that will not release means the vehicle cannot be refueled, which can strand the driver or cause a loss of motive power in traffic. Owners of other 2022-2023 Santa Cruz vehicles report the same failure online, including at least one tow after an owner could not refuel. An authorized Hyundai dealer inspected the vehicle twice. On 08/29/2026 (24,410 miles) the dealer could not reproduce the concern and lubricated the latch pins. The failure returned within days. On 09/09/2026 (24,520 miles) the dealer confirmed the concern, found the electronic release motor had failed and the door housing assembly seized, and replaced the housing (part 81595-K5500) under the 5-year/60,000-mile warranty, documenting the repair with photos per Hyundai's warranty policy. The failed component remained with the dealer; both repair orders are available on request. Hyundai already addresses this failure on the related Tucson: TSB 25-BE-021H covers the same fuel filler door release actuator on 2022-2024 models, and its official repair video is titled for both the Tucson and Santa Cruz, indicating a shared component and known failure mode. No Santa Cruz bulletin or remedy has been published. I ask NHTSA to track this as a defect trend.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM,UNKNOWN OR OTHER 2026-07-27 · NHTSA 11753189

my 2023 Santa Cruz had 7500 miles when purchased 4/25/26. I have had issues with the screen blackening/fading which cuts of electronics; ex; safety features. This was taken in twice. Then the truck loses power. Going 55 or 75, suddenly truck drops to 20mph. Car's honk, brake & swerve not to hit us. It has been at dealers three times now for same issue. Since I've owned vehicle, it has been at dealer for 29 days tomorrow and it is still there. The truck is a death trap, always something wrong.

ENGINE 2026-07-10 · NHTSA 11749495

driving/pulling on interstate speed only went to 20 miles per hour, no more. Pulled off and turned truck off, waited and restarted. all fine. No warning was given. Short time later engine light came on. Called and got appointment at dealers.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM 2026-07-10 · NHTSA 11749492

truck dash light would fade/blacken at which time none of safety features would work. This is an intermittent problem but seem like it has happened many times with the Santa Cruz's in general, so Hyundai was aware of problem. They don't seem to fix problems. This is a critical safety failure. No warning just happens. Had it happen to my truck about 7 times. When screen blackens, I have no safety features, can't see anything on dash, so I could get in a wreck

SERVICE BRAKES,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM Crash 2026-04-26 · NHTSA 11733854

Sudden Unintended Acceleration: Coming to a stop in a driveway and planning to put vehicle in to reverse, the Santa Cruz suddenly accelerated and kept accelerating ... it would not stop moving, brakes were applied continuously and forcefully, but with no effect. Vehicle crashed through shrubbery and small trees into neighbor's yard, over a retaining wall and finally crashing into neighbors parked classic car, only stopping after it nose-dived downward. We live in Rapid City, this event happened at our daughter's residence in Black Hawk, South Dakota.

ENGINE 2026-02-22 · NHTSA 11719745

oil leak the oil leak has be too the dealer twice for repair each time they said it was fixed it has now has happend again for the third time in less than 306 miles could cause engine failure at highway speed and engine lockup at such speed first time it was found by dealer after third oil change approx. 15000 miles second 12000 miles later and now 306 miles latter with this time the leak was larger to to the fact that it triggerd the low oil light first two times it told to me it was oil pan gasket and a small leak which at the time made sense it not show up on the dipstick i know this was da problem on other Hyundai santa cruz models in previous years0

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM,EXTERIOR LIGHTING 2026-01-28 · NHTSA 11714053

At least two separate wiring harnesses have failed on my vehicle, affecting the tail lights. My vehicle cannot pass New York State safety inspection because of this issue. Safety of myself and other drivers is at risk, especially at night, since my vehicle is not properly illuminated. Occasionally, one tail light will go out or flicker. I had one trailer harness removed under a safety recall, but I don't recall the dealership ever replacing it. Then, a couple of years later, I got a ticket for a tail light being out. Paid the dealership to replace a (possibly second) trailer wiring harness, but they got the wrong one. When they finally got the "right" one, another (possible 3rd), much more expensive harness was found to be shorted due to corrosion, prompting me to look into trading the vehicle in instead of repairing it. All harness issues in question are related to corrosion from water infiltration. The technician working on my vehicle told me that this is a common issue with Santa Cruzes and Tucson's, but only certain vehicles have been recalled (of course, mine was not on the list). My vehicle is only 3 years old. This is all after having the dealership replace a harness under the seat that was causing an issue with the audio, including safety notifications, that started within weeks of owning the vehicle. No warning lights, messages faults, or other symptoms indicated there was an issue. Self diagnostics, as accessed via Hyundai's BlueLink app, has no record of issues since the first wiring harness issues I had when I first bought the vehicle (see below). I have already filed a separate complaint regarding the harness under the seat. This is a new complaint regarding wiring harnesses, unrelated to the first underseat harness complaint.

FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE 2025-11-02 · NHTSA 11697025

While driving on the highway at a speed of approx 35 mph, no traffic in front of me, I got an audile warning and the car started slowing down, and the message on the dash said EMERGENCY BRAKING, this has happened twice in the last month.

UNKNOWN OR OTHER,FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE 2025-10-12 · NHTSA 11692942

Transmission does not advance through its ranges fails to shift leaving stranded middle of intersection. Misses a whole range looses excelleration. You

POWER TRAIN 2025-10-06 · NHTSA 11691557

Hyundai Santa Cruz with transmission problems. 5 attempts to repair and manufacture failed to. Last time, vehicle had a sudden transmission failure while driving. Car stop responding to acceleration and transmission was not switching gears, that could had cause loss of control, especially in high-speed or high-traffic situations. Luckily it was very early in the morning, not much traffic and before (0.3 miles) from taking a high-speed interstate. Vehicle is not safe to drive and according to a research I made, other vehicles of same brand, model and year are facing same issues.

SUSPENSION 2025-09-30 · NHTSA 11690576

The contact owns a 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz. The contact stated that while hauling a trailer and attempting to accelerate at various speeds, the vehicle was bouncing, and the tires was losing traction before being able to accelerate. The contact stated that the vehicle failed to raise and lower as the shock absorbers needed to perform. The vehicle was taken to the dealer to be diagnosed, and it was determined that the rear shocks had failed to allow the vehicle to self-level. The rear shocks were replaced; however, the failure persisted. The contact reported the persistence of the failure and was advised to go to another dealer, Greg Hubler Hyundai (6200 W Hometown Blvd, Muncie, IN 47304) who also replaced the rear struts. The manufacturer was informed of the failure and opened a case. The failure mileage was approximately 7,000.

STRUCTURE Fire 2025-09-17 · NHTSA 11687864

The contact owned a 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz. The contact stated that while exiting the vehicle to go into a store, he looked back and noticed the vehicle was on fire. No warning lights illuminated. The contact mentioned he noticed the fire was coming from the rear driver's side quarter panel. The contact called 911. No injuries were sustained. No medical attention was required. A police report was not filed. The fire department extinguished the fire. The vehicle was taken to a savage yard, and the insurance will then have the vehicle towed to a body shop. The vehicle was not repaired. The manufacturer was notified of the failure, and they informed the contact that they would inspect the vehicle, and they also offered to buy back the vehicle. Recently, he got an email informing him that they are not going to buy back the vehicle. The failure mileage was 18,000.

POWER TRAIN,VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL,ENGINE 2025-09-13 · NHTSA 11687068

On [XXX], I went out to start my 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz (SC) to leave work to go home. It was difficult to start, however, it started. As I entered [XXX] , i was nearly rear ended by another car, because my SC lost all acceleration. I turned on my hazards for SAFETY and then began to try to accelerate again and was only able to get up to 45 MPH and then was turning 4,000 RPM. I limped my SC home where I had it towed to a local Hyundai dealer as it has roughly 38,000 miles. The dealership had it for 3 days, but couldn't duplicate the issue, so no repairs were done. The Hyundai Santa Cruz has KNOWN transmission issues and the fact I was nearly rear ended could've caused a nasty wreck, resulting in more damage or even a fatality. I reported the issue to Hyundai customer service on the 11th of September (Case #[XXX]). However, in the response from Hyundai, basically saying they "experiencing a high e-mail volume" and responses may be delayed. As of 9/13/2025, I have not received a call or email from Hyundai's customer service. INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

POWER TRAIN 2025-09-05 · NHTSA 11685226

car flashes transmission low fluid and gives a code of p193b-79. when trans downshifts upshifts will not happened. to clear the problem you have to turn car off and on , and then normal operation resumes, but shifting is now slower. and sluggish. this is the second transmission to have this problem. Seem hyundai has not fixed it from the 2022 recall.

AIR BAGS 2025-05-20 · NHTSA 11662130

1- Air bag light randomly comes on and off. 2- Today (5.20.25) I brought it to dealer. Dealer said they disconnected the sensor switch and cleaned it, then reconnected and light went off (covered under warranty). 3- I got in the truck, started it, and light was off. 4- I drove one block and airbag light came on again. 5- Returned to dealer, who asked me to leave the car with them. 6- Dealer called and said they will replace air bag (did not specify which one). I hope this solves the problem. 7- I checked a Santa Cruz forum: [XXX] and it looks like A LOT of people have the same problem. Some report it's the sensor assembly underneath the seat. INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

ENGINE 2025-05-07 · NHTSA 11659417

Received error code P030300 and the third cylinder fuel injector had to be replaced. There is approximately 36000 miles on the vehicle.

ENGINE 2025-04-26 · NHTSA 11656960

Oil filter cap oil leak problem. Typical problem with this vehicles that require attention. These defective oil leak caps are a safety and environmental concern. The engine almost starved of oil while driving on the highway. Manufacturer has been contacted and are not proactive in taking care of this defect.

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM Fire 2025-03-30 · NHTSA 11651645

The system that failed was electrical near or in the Tow Hitch which caused the vehicle fire. Vehicle is available for inspection at Auto Body Evolution Essex MD. The car caught fire in the back of the vehicle while parked in Owner's driveway and engine off. Neighbor pounded on Owner's door at 6:50 am. yelling for the residents to open the door that their vehicle was on fire in their driveway. Fire was dangerously close to the gas cap; parked vehicle was close to the owner's house, two boats in the driveway, and neighbor's house. After the incident, owner googled for any issues with Santa Cruz's. It was then and only then we learned that this vehicle had a fire recall on the Tow Hitch. We NEVER received a recall notice. In fact, we had this vehicle at the dealership approximately 6 weeks ago for another recall issue, thermostat, and the dealership NEVER checked for any additional recalls. Police and Fire Department were called to the scene by using 911. Officer Irwin who arrived on scene, Badge #6560, Police Report #[XXX], had to use his bully stick to bust the window to use a fire extinguisher before the fire department arrived. The car would not unlock and the windows would not operate. If we had been in the vehicle when the fire erupted or any other passengers in the vehicle, we would not have been able to get out of the car due to the electrical fire effecting the operation of the window and doors if the doors were locked. INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

SERVICE BRAKES,FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE 2025-03-15 · NHTSA 11648471

The emergency brake system comes on while driving 60 - 70 miles an hour on freeway. It has happened twice. It does not happen every time I drive 60 - 70. The light comes on stating Emergency Braking and my vehicle slows down. It does not last for very long then goes away. I took it to the dealership and it did not do it for them. They kept it 3 days.

ENGINE 2025-02-10 · NHTSA 11641829

My coolant reservoir was so low that there was less than 8oz of coolant left in the tank. I contacted my local Hyundai dealership and had them service my Santa Cruz. The service techs at the dealership told me that there was a known issue with some of the factory coolant reservoir caps and the seal not working correctly, thus causing coolant to flow out through the cap instead of the overflow hose. They explained that the cap's o-ring at the factory is sometimes faulty. They replaced my cap and I am still monitoring for further issues. There is no TSB listed for this "known" issue. It seems that the dealership has not reported this issue.

POWER TRAIN,UNKNOWN OR OTHER 2025-01-28 · NHTSA 11639015

Vehice experienced FULL power loss several times. Truck taken to dealership and stated no problem found. Incident happened again a week later. Determined wires can become lose from battery terminals for no reason.

POWER TRAIN 2025-01-24 · NHTSA 11638292

I am experiencing shuddering when accelerating from stop.

FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM 2025-01-24 · NHTSA 11638311

Lower Average Fuel Consumption than advertised. 10mpg

SERVICE BRAKES 2025-01-15 · NHTSA 11636148

Electric parking brake, driving at 70mph on freeway and Electric parking brake engaged. Almost lost control of vehicle and crashed. Stopped vehicle and turned ignition off let sit for 3 minutes and restarted. Problem cleared able to drive home with out issues. Called dealership to get vehicle in for service. Days later electric parking brake engaged again well driving at speed of 25mph. Again almost crashed. Dealership stated that problem with electric parking brake cables. Dealership replacing cables and rear brake calipers but going to take over a month to get replacement warranty parts from Hyundai

POWER TRAIN,VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM 2025-01-09 · NHTSA 11635156

My 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz, which I bought new, has gone into limp mode twice in 8 months, losing power while I was driving and letting me go no faster than 25 MPH. The first time, in April 2024, I was on [XXX] in Hartford CT. I called 911 because I was certain I would be hit by a car. There was no warning lights to indicate a problem. I was able to get off the highway and had it towed to Meriden Hyundai in Meriden CT. They said they could find nothing wrong. On [XXX], my vehicle went into limp mode again. I was able to drive it to the same dealer since I work nearby. Again, they say they can't find the cause. I have been without a vehicle since then. The car is a danger to drive, and Hyundai has not resolved the matter, though I've been in contact with corporate representatives. Limp mode has caused many crashed across the country. It is designed to protect a car from a mechanical problem - but the system itself puts drivers at great risk. My hope is the NTSB will investigate my case and this national problem before more people are injured or killed. INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

STRUCTURE 2025-01-09 · NHTSA 11635010

This has happened twice in the last 3 months of owning this vehicle. Both times were luckily in uncrowded slow speed areas, and I had nothing in the bed. First time was in a parking lot (without my tonneau installed), the Most recent incident happened as I was reversing out of my driveway and as I Put my Vehicle in Drive slowly moving forward my Tailgate opened Unexpectedly (with a tonneau installed). My tail Gate Did not open fast, it was its standard controlled open.

ENGINE,FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM 2024-12-30 · NHTSA 11633032

This is my 2nd complaint re: the same issue. Loss of power during driving. Unable to accelerate. I need to pull over shut off the engine and turn it back on.

POWER TRAIN 2024-12-13 · NHTSA 11630645

Transmission failed to transfer adequate power to the wheels when the accelerator was pressed from a full stop at the entry point of an intersection. This led to the the vehicle slowly entering the intersection for 2 feet over w seconds. Transmission then transferred full power to wheels. Vehicle was then driven to the entrance of the nearest parking lot, which required a left turn. Vehicle again had only a partial transfer of power to the transmission, leaving the vehicle temporarily blocking part of the oncoming lane which could be dangerous if there was any oncoming traffic. A "check transmission oil" message flashed on the driver screen; however, this vehicle has a sealed transmission and it is impossible for a driver to check. Vehicle was then taken to the nearest dealership for evaluation.

FUEL/PROPULSION SYSTEM 2024-10-18 · NHTSA 11620509

Lack of power upon accelerating. I could slowly get car up to 40 MPH however when trying to accelerate it would lose power. I had to pull over for faster traffic to pass.

POWER TRAIN,UNKNOWN OR OTHER,ENGINE 2024-10-15 · NHTSA 11619977

On 3 separate occasions this has occurred . When accelerating, the engine or power train completely loses all propulsion. Twice I was starting a left hand turn and crossing oncoming traffic. On one occasion I was turning right onto a 50 MPH highway and quickly veered off the road onto the berm. The only item on dash board flashing on the third incident was the cruise control preset and it was flashing 20. At the time I was not using the cruise control and I did not set it for 20. No dash board warning lights lit during the first two losses of power. I reported it to the dealer. Today I had a maintenance appointment and inspection at the dealer. After that inspection, they informed me that they found no codes to identify the issue. I should let them know if it continues. My 3 failures happened at approximately 10,000, 15,000 and 20,000 miles. My safety and that of my passenger were most definitely affected each and every time. After 30 seconds to one minute the full functionality returns as if it never happened.

FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE,ENGINE 2024-09-26 · NHTSA 11616602

The contact owns a 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz. The contact stated while driving approximately 65 MPH with the cruise control engaged, the vehicle started losing motive power. The contact stated that the check engine warning light was illuminated. The contact stated that the vehicle slowed to approximately 15 MPH while depressing the accelerator pedal and failed to respond as needed. The contact was able to drive the vehicle to the residence. The contact turned off the vehicle and attempted to restart the vehicle; however, the vehicle failed to restart. The contact had the vehicle towed to a dealer who diagnosed the vehicle and determined that a fuel injector had failed and needed to be replaced. The vehicle was repaired. The manufacturer was not informed of the failure. The failure mileage was 13,803.

POWER TRAIN,ENGINE 2024-08-12 · NHTSA 11608085

Loss of power during driving No warning or warning lights vehicle would not accelerate engine speed increased only to 3k rpm’s but vehicle would not accelerate This could have been life threatening if I was in traffic Shut vehicle off and restarted problem when away From looking on forums this is an issue with the Santa Cruz

UNKNOWN OR OTHER 2024-07-23 · NHTSA 11603981

This vehicle has a design flaw with the grill opening. I had a whole in radiator that cost $1700 from road debris hitting it. Now 3 months later I am putting out $1400 to replace air conditioning condenser for the same reason. The openings for the grill that is supposed to protect these components are to large.

POWER TRAIN 2024-07-19 · NHTSA 11603499

For the entire day (XXX) my car would go limp when trying to shift gears with an automatic transmission. At least 3-5 second delays when pressing on gas and NOTHING happens. Very dangerous when driving in traffic as you cannot get out of the way of oncoming traffic! It finally moves very slowly as if you are in the wrong gear. I would say that the 2 and 4 gears it would not go into at all. As I floored the accelerator, I would see my MPG rating go sky high as no gas was getting into engine. The clutch was slipping when trying to accelerate. Then I got a main display message that said "A possible condition with your Transmission Control System has been detected. A full system check is recommended to be done when convenient, Please contact your local dealership to schedule an appointment". The yellow CHECK ENGINE symbol also came on and stayed lit on the dash. This problem continued for an hour as I drove the car and got home safely. I drove it again an hour later and the same problem persisted again. I also received a Hyundai Bluelink message that a problem had been detected with my Transmission Control System and gave me error code P1C2D03. You may want to look at Hyundai Recall 236 (which only covered 22 Santa Cruz models, even though everything is the same in 23 model and the recall should be extended by you). Also look at Hyundai TSB 22-AT-009H which is my exact issue. These 23 Santa Cruz need to be recalled and fixed before someone gets killed. Went to Hyundai dealer the next day, and the car was operating normally although the CHECK ENGINE light was still on. They performed a software update and said if the problem continues that they will need to replace transmission. I have no confidence that this problem is fixed. Way too many people out there dealing with the same as I found out on [XXX] Thank You INFORMATION REDACTED PURSUANT TO THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT (FOIA), 5 U.S.C. 552(B)(6)

SERVICE BRAKES,FORWARD COLLISION AVOIDANCE 2024-07-15 · NHTSA 11602372

The contact owns a 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz. The contact stated that while driving 60 MPH with the cruise control feature activated, the braking system erroneously activated causing the vehicle to abruptly decelerate. After parking and restarting the vehicle, the vehicle operated normally, and the failure was corrected. The vehicle was later taken to the local dealer who was unable to determine the cause of the failure. There was no repair performed. The contact stated that the failure had reoccurred. The manufacturer was not yet contacted. The failure mileage was 1,000.

POWER TRAIN 2024-07-09 · NHTSA 11600528

Truck stopped shifting corrrectly with 11550 miles. Would get stuck in 8th gear or 2nd gear. Shifting into manual mode produced no response. I brought it to the dealer 6/12 and upon receiving the P1c2d03 code, they told me it would be a hp oil pump. Looking the issue up, it seems the 2022's had this issue and required a new trans, not oil pump. A week later (6/20) dealer ship calls and says it's fixed with the oil pump. I go to collect my truck and don't make it out of the lot before it stumbles and gets stuck in 2nd gear again. Left it with the dealer again, but haven't heard anything since, and they won't return my calls. Currently 7/9 with no response.

POWER TRAIN 2024-06-04 · NHTSA 11592442

so it seems that recall NHTSA Campaign Number: 22V746000 also effects 2023 santa cruz with the dct. While driving got transmission error on gauge once slowed by traffic vehicle would not shift and would just rev, after almost being hit by another car. figure out if you let it rev and then let off gas pedal car would upshift. But this was done by trial and error. this has happened 3 times and first 2 dealer says nothing wrong. code was p193b79. I think the recall to fix these transmissions should be expanded to 2023 and probably 2024 cars.

POWER TRAIN 2024-05-13 · NHTSA 11588397

On 3/22/2024 I was driving my 2023 Hyundai Santa Cruz with 19k miles about 30 mph. My transmission suddenly became jerky without warning and acted liked it did not want to downshift, staying in higher RPMs. When it did decide to downshift, it lurched the vehicle badly. There were no warning lamps or messages prior to the incident. A few seconds after it happened, the check engine light came on, along with a diagnostic notification on my infotainment screen. This indicated a powertrain issue. I then received a notification on my Hyundai Bluelink App regarding a powertrain issue: "Transmission Control System problem, please see dealer".I dropped the vehicle off 3/27/2024 and As of this writing on 5/13/2024 my vehicle has been sitting at a local dealership for almost 50 consecutive days. In the 5 day period between 3/22-3/27 I was instructed it was OK to keep driving the vehicle until drop-off. I experienced 2 more instances of a rough downshift in that time. When I dropped the vehicle off on 3/27, I was told I could take the vehicle home and drive it until they figure out what to do with it and receive instruction from Hyundai Corporate. This was an extremely reckless and dangerous thing to tell me I feel. The local dealer claimed they had not seen this issue before, had to wait for Hyundai Corporate to instruct them on what to do, but a transmission replacement was possible. Eventually they were instructed to replace the transmission oil pump and do a software update. Research shows the 2022 model Santa Cruz had a recall for the transmission oil pump. Recall # 22V746000 "transmission oil pump malfunction, which can result in a complete loss of drive power, increasing the risk of a crash". Yes I believe mine and my spouse's safety, and other's was/is at risk, as this happened as I was driving and there was a previous recall for this exact part. I have informed Hyundai Corporate America of the issue and waiting for responses and resolutions from them.

UNKNOWN OR OTHER 2024-03-28 · NHTSA 11580015

Vehicle goes into limp mode not allowing you to go over 25 miles per hour. Happens randomly and unexpectedly causing you to about be rear ended. Once you pull over and shut vehicle off and restart it is normally ok for an unknown period of time

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